Oh dear, I'm one of those impossible people who, I now realise, practice these things by degrees.
There's lots of freedom and choice but within parameters. I'm not against (older) children staying up late - to midnight and beyond, and Saurus has done this once or twice, and I think Roo's joined in once - but as an out of the ordinary thing, not as a regular occurrence. Bedtimes fluctuate and vary according to the season, the time of the week - they might have a film in the evening at the weekend- illness, etc etc. Still, normally, everyone's tucked up by 8 or 9pm, and papacrow and I are only a few hours behind.
I understand all the arguments for it but I just can't get past the very strong feeling that a six year old wandering around the house all night by himself after you've gone to bed, and finding him asleep over the computer in the morning... Is awful.
It just feels wrong wrong wrong to me....
I love bath and and bedtime, it's probably my favourite time of day... The fun in the bath - and how lovely it is, i know from experience, to feel warm and clean and in soft snugly pjs and dressing-gown! Snuggling up and reading stories (bliss), maybe a last treat of hot toast or a biscuit, cuddling in bed and talking about the day.... Tucking them up with their favourite blankets, and toys... It just all feels good and nice and loving...
I like pottering about the house in evening, in the hush of sleeping and the small occasional sounds of the sleepers, caring for the house, and myself, reconnecting with papacrow and getting everything ready to start all over again for the next day...
I could say that maybe it's because most of my children are younger, we'll get more autonomous when they're older, but as I sited, there are examples given on various sites involving quite young children that (personally) make me shiver at the thought of 'doing' that to my own children...
Only One Way
2 hours ago
5 comments:
That's interesting, Mamacrow. I think we all need to find a way to live that feels 'right' enough for us and our children. For me, that is about trying to create enough predictability in my children's lives for them to feel safe. I do think that 'sameness' is significant for children. I suppose I shouldn't generalise but I know it was important for me and I know it is for my children. So we do, usually, have dinner at the table, quietish activities in the evening, toothbrushing and bedtime stories. It's not about rules - just a negotiated, evolving way 'we do things'.
I love bed time too, and so does R. I was having difficulty with his nap time, however, and found some of the advice and personal stories on Sandra Dodd's site really helpful (was planning a blog post about it later!)
I loved bed time when I was a kid, and I'm hoping R will be the same - he certainly seems to be so far. It's all about finding a balance that suits everybody, and adapting when things change.
It seems in the long run, allowing kids to go to sleep when they want,(of course if they have an appt the next morning, they need guidance to make sure they still get enough sleep) doesn't do them any harm.
I'm not jumping into 'no bed times' any time soon - just from today, even the nap time thing isn't working, so I don't know, I'm just wittering!
EXACTLY Allie, I couldn't agree more! And I don't see how you can be flexible and offer choices if you don't have some kind of structure to base/launch off from...
'It seems in the long run, allowing kids to go to sleep when they want... doesn't do them any harm'
No Debs, but then I don't see the problem with being in bed but not necessarily being asleep?
My mum always said this, and also that even if you're not asleep, you are resting - far more than if you're up, even if just watching tv (of course, tv does stuff to your brainwaves and can disrupt sleep patterns if you're prone to that)
I love cuddling up with books, or just lying there daydreaming, and the children do too...
Conditioning on my part I supose... but then parenting is to a certain extent isn't it? Conditioning to behave and see the world in a certain way?
The princples I want to pass on include questioning, forming your own opinions and doing what you yourself believe to be right, but even so it's still definable as social conditioning...
We've gone in phases over the years, both with sleep and food and yes, I think the ages of children and the requirements of the whole family are crucial factors when it comes to making decisions like this. Well, perhaps not ages per se, as much as personalities, and needs etc.
Out of my five, two are sometimes night owls and have appreciated having the choice since they left school aged around 10. One had the choice from aged 8+ (again, after deregistration) but to her own annoyance always fell asleep wherever she was at 10pm! LOL!
And the two younger ones still share my room - which is the logical arrangement when you're a single mum, because we all like the company etc and there are no bruised egos or conflicting interests to worry about! - so they go to bed when I do without question or argument, which is very early: 8ish or 9ish. My six year-old shows no signs of wanting to prowl the house at night yet, but if and when she does, I will probably allow it, given certain provisos i.e. she's quiet and the place is left tidy etc. I hate getting up to a mess!
I've found that the older children liked to experiment with their sleep patterns, especially as younger teenagers, and that it hasn't done them any harm to do so. In fact, I think it's done them good because they are now very good at, for e.g., going to bed early if they need to be up early, setting alarm clocks when needed (even buying their own, because it's not something I'd ever think to stock up on!) and I have nothing to do with it. So I'm not forever haranguing people to go to bed now, or get up now, which is lovely. They've worked it out for themselves.
Thinking back a few years, there were one or two problems with noise. I remember very occasionally having to ask the boys to chat a bit more quietly in the kitchen at 2am, and it upset me when they cooked midnight feasts and then left me all the washing up to face on waking up! I hated that, and it went on for about two years, on and off.
But then they realised it wasn't a nice way to treat me and just stopped doing it. I think I also realised that if I cooked a big evening meal and organised washing up afterwards, it wouldn't need to happen also, so that works well now.
So our food/ unfooding system has changed and evolved along with our sleep/ unsleeping (?!) system and they've both kind of intertwined with the whole autonomy thing, which is a fascinating issue, isn't it? It certainly hasn't always been absolute in our house, or always easy, but I'm glad we did it that way.
Each to their own! No one right way, etc. :-)
That's really interesting Gill, thankyou - i was hoping you'd comment!
I agree that personality of the individual is a big thing - if not the major deciding factor - but for me, I think that age is also a big issue, even though it is arbitary...
I've been thinking alot about my reaction and I think it's an extenstion from when they were babies - how I cherish and snuggle them, keep them warm, clean, comfortable etc etc....
6 is still so little in many ways...
Having said that, of course all babies are different, and like sleeping different ways/places/times, and I let them get on with it - while surrounding them with love and nuture, some of which does have a physical manifestation - fleecy blankets, slings and so on!
Maybe I can't detach from my own experiences and knowledge of my own children.
If one of them reached 6 and desperately needed less sleep and wanted to be up and doing quietly later than when I'd normally expect, and it became apparent this was an ongoing and fundemental need, I can't imagine we wouldn't address and negotiate this....
I think it would be more of compromise tho, maybe they could stay up till 10ish, which is when we'd most likley be shuffling off to bed...
Something just nags at me loud and clear of ages and saftey and me being asleep and them being awake (I don't nap during the day time when I'm the only adult) ... deeply, like a primal thing... Must protect them from the bears! as it were :)
Teens - totally, I'd be much more relaxed about that I think, it's vital they get to stretch their wings and establish their identity and independence, and this would be a great 'by degrees' way with a good saftey net (they can just wake us up in avent of an emergency that they need/want help with)
Saurus won't be 13 till Jan, and as always slept ALOT so I think it will be a while before I have to live with it on a practical level...
Roo needs less sleep and always has done - he's often up 5/6 am reading and drawing, so he may well want to experiment....
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